Political thinker and activist Yogendra Yadav, 59,is a fearless critic of right-wing politics. Known as a voice of dissent, Yadav is president of Swaraj India and was a leader of the Jai Kisan Andolan that led the farmer's movement in Delhi against the three contentious farm laws.
Also a leading social scientist and psephologist, Yadav in this interview with Mahesh Deka, Executive Editor, Northeast Now, speaks on a range of subjects, including his love for Assamese gamosa, Congress’s Bharat Jodo Yatra, APP’s politics, AIUDF’s positions and the implementation of Citizenship (Amendment) Act (CAA). Excerpts:
Yogendra Yadav ji good evening. Let’s start our conversation on a lighter note. We often see you donning traditional Assamese gamosa. How did it start? Is there any specific reason behind this?
I mean it started almost accidentally. My wife and I were in Shillong visiting Apuraba da (Apurba Kr Baruah) and Monorama Di (Monorama Sarma). And Monorama Di’s mother, who was very old, then, gave me a hand-woven gamosa—a cotton hand-woven gamosa, which I wore--I liked. And that is the time I had a peculiar problem. In Delhi, everyone uses AC. And AC is so cold that I used to catch a cold all the time. So I needed to protect my throat. So for this functional reason… You know, in summer you cannot wear a muffler…So I thought this is perfect… so it was started then for that particular reason. But then, over the years I found that Assamese gamosa is a combination of aesthetics and functionality. North Indian gamosa is very functional, but is not aesthetic; South Indian angabastra is very aesthetic but you cannot wipe your face with it. But Assamese gamosa has both—it has beauty and is effectually useful. So I use it for all purposes—to wipe my face, to use it as a pillow, to use it as a head skirt, as a muffler, and sometimes as a bedsheet. And also I feel it a little connected with the Northeast ---And anywhere in the country when I meet people from Assam –they ask me—you are from Assam? That made me feel happy.
You have been actively participating in the Bharat Jodo Yatra undertaken by the Congress party since its start. The Yatra will culminate after a few days. What’s your take on the foot march of the Congress party?
I think the yatra has done better than I expected, I didn’t expect any dramatic election results from this yatra. For me the yatra was not about the elections, for me, the yatra was about puncturing their (BJP’s) narrative and providing people with an alternative narrative. For me, it was about breaking the spiral of silence that was about giving people the courage to come out of the street to break the loneliness. That the yatra has done. Even in the first one or two months, the yatra has managed to do that. It has also energized the Congress party, it has dramatically changed Rahul Gandhi’s image-- these are by-products. For me, the most important thing is that it has given people a ray of hope in times when everything was going down and people have lost all hopes-- that for me is the real gift of this yatra.
Do you believe it will help in the revival of Congress's fortunes?
For me, honestly, the revival of Congress is not my top priority in life. My priority is that this regime should be challenged, should be questioned, and should be removed democratically. If someone is trying to destroy my country, it is my right and my duty as a citizen to try and remove them from power. In that Congress has a role to play--therefore, if Congress grows better then it is good. But somehow Congress should gain is not my preference and priorities; my preference is what the BJP is doing. My top preference is people should have courage; the second preference is in the long run for ideological battle, we should be prepared and the third is that this regime should be changed.
Is Congress gaining? Yes, it is gaining. Congress workers are now being positive, and proactive, their self-confidence has grown up--all these are positive things but one should never assume that this will automatically get the vote for Congress. You can do a great yatra but do a very bad election because elections is something for which you have to prepare separately.
What’s your take on the recent Gujarat Assembly elections results? Congress blamed the AAP and the AIMIM for theirdismal performance in the state.
Frankly, BJP did not run a very good government in Gujarat and they have no leader, no face at all except Modi, the chief minister--no one knows the chief minister so they should have done better. Why BJP did so well--one reason is of course Aam Aadmi Party (AAP). APP made its principal target to destroy Congress, that was their main target and they have made it. Yes, they have succeeded in some areas in Saurashtra and in some tribal belts in southern Gujarat and AIMIM many have done some damage to Congress but that cannot be the only reason. The real reason was Congress did not act as an opposition Party for five years; they were not on the ground. Congress did not have a presentable leadership; they didn’t have a credible message to the public. Congress did not play its role as an opposition party. You cannot be absent for five years and then expect people to vote.
Delhi CM & APP chief Arvind Kejriwal resorted to soft Hindutva politics before the Gujarat Assembly elections. He appealed to the Centre to have images of Hindu deities Lakshmi and Ganesh on Indian currency notes. How do you see AAP’s politics?
AAP’s politics is absolutely clear. I think Arvind (Kejriwal) may have many faults but he does not lack clarity. So, their politics is whatever gets you votes, they follow it and they have realized that right now Hindutva dominates. Their assessment is that Hindutva is now such a big commodity that they need to sell it to get votes. But what we have seen in Gujarat elections results is that you cannot beat BJP by trying to be more Hindu. Arvind thought he could do it, but that does not happen, and that’s a very good news for the country. Because, frankly the role of AAP, especially on issues of communalism is deplorable--it’s shameful for a party to do what they are doing. I don’t criticize them on all the things because the govt has positive points and negative points but what they are doing on this is absolutely shameful. I feel ashamed of having been associated with these people.
Do you regret now that you were a part of the AAP once?
No, I do not regret supporting the Lokpal movement. When people were out on the street protesting against corruption you should be with the people not with the rulers and I am proud that I was with the people, not with rulers. I regret the fact that when AAP was formed, we ceded too much control to Arvind, and his coterie captured the party in our presence. We could not prevent them and that I regret. It was a mistake that we allowed the power-hungry coterie to capture our dream. I feel bad about it.
Congress alleged that AIUDF was working as an agent of the BJP. What’s your view?
I don’t say AIUDF is an agent of the BJP. Similarly, I don’t see (Asaduddin) Owaisi as an agent of the BJP, I also don’t see AAP as an agent of the BJP. But their politics --AAP’s short-term agenda coincides with BJP’s long-term agenda which is first destroying Congress. Owaisi’s politics goes up in direct proportion to the BJP’s rise of politics, so both of them are connected, though not directly. But in politics you know when one kind of disease goes up another disease comes up. AIUDF is clearly a party that has a community-specific agenda. But in a democracy, it’s perfectly alright for a minority to wish to express itself. To my mind, it is a failure of mainstream Assamese politics that it could not find a language and a political vehicle to keep the Muslims with them and even non-Asamese Muslims with them; it is a failure for them because you have to find a way to keep them together. It was perfectly alright to oppose the foreigners but in opposing the foreigners, the mainstream Assamese politics lost the confidence of Bengali-speaking Muslims, which was a historic mistake.
Congress has decidednot to tie up with AIUDF in the 2024 Lok Sabha polls, do you think it will help Congress?
It’s very hard to say because if Congress ties up with AIUDF, it is seen as a Muslim party which is not an image that Congress would like to create. At the same time, if they don’t tie up with AIUDF they will lose their votes. So it is a hard decision, there is no straightforward answer to this. But in long run, Congress or any secular party will have to find ways of articulating the legitimate aspirations of linguistic and religious minorities.
It seems Opposition unity is not possible for now. Will it be possible to defeat the BJP in the 2024 general elections without opposition unity?
I have repeatedly said that we do not need an opposition unity. It is a mistake to think that BJP can be defeated only when all opposition parties are united. Opposition unity is a relevant factor only in five states in India--Assam happens to be one of them. Its Assam, Bihar, Jharkhand, Maharashtra & Karnataka, rest of the country opposition unity is not the most important factor. In Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, and Chhattisgarh what opposition unity do we need? The need for the opposition is overstated. In Assam, it matters a bit but again I don’t know if Mahagathbandhan is a good idea even for Assam. What you need is a tiny alliance specifically with the tribal parties, and with local parties—that stitching is very important. What is needed is a unity of purpose but not a pre-electoral collision--that is overstated.
Although the Citizenship (Amendment) Bill (CAB) was passed in a haste, now theCentre is dilly-dallying on the implementation of CAA. How do you see this? Is there any politics behind it?
They are waiting for an opportune moment. I am very sure they will bring it. They have delayed it because they had not anticipated such an opposition. The manner in which Assam rose—this was not just an agitation but a popular uprising--they had not anticipated that. That is why they have not been able to push this forward but my own sense is that they will find a way-- they will push it. They could push it in the next one year, because BJP needs a divisive agenda for 2024 (general elections). They could use CAA once again as a divisive agenda for 2024 (elections). So we have to be alert and careful.
